(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  This isn't a new "trend" at all and it's always been this way.

(06-01-2014 11:39 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  This isn't a new "trend" at all and it's always been this way.

I beg to differ! This morning when I got on Yahoo to check my email, this caught my eye:



Also, how did the media already catch wind of my marriage proposal to Kitten Longmeadow? Wtf news travels fast these days. At least it wasn't trending higher than Dave Grohl, I'd feel bad, he's a legend.

#100L9t@ethereal_hurricane@kittenlongmeadow#gratsonwedding

(06-01-2014 11:10 PM)Jackson Verlack Wrote:  Im taking this time to work on my projects so that when things pick up I have something to offer through auctions, fresh kittycats with some very set in "stone" traits and perhaps some new ones form Easter if Im lucky

(06-02-2014 12:46 PM)Luna1987 Resident Wrote:  For the few years I have been doing this, I have noticed the "Summer Slump" and it sucks but this is when i sell my extra collection kittys and stupid prices to feed my project kittes >< I hate doing it BUT it happens every year. I wounder if a "Summer Collection" would help or hurt... I know we ALL spend WAY too much on the collections already, but this may keep people interested in high triated cats for breeding against the collection.

(06-01-2014 11:47 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 11:39 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  This isn't a new "trend" at all and it's always been this way.

I beg to differ! This morning when I got on Yahoo to check my email, this caught my eye:



Also, how did the media already catch wind of my marriage proposal to Kitten Longmeadow? Wtf news travels fast these days. At least it wasn't trending higher than Dave Grohl, I'd feel bad, he's a legend.

#100L9t@ethereal_hurricane@kittenlongmeadow#gratsonwedding

LOL

(And why wasn't I invited to the wedding!? Kitten and Ethereal, I demand explanations!)

(06-02-2014 04:00 PM)Vrem Vaniva Wrote:  Great thread. I'm glad you brought this up again, Pretty -- it's very timely as summer dawns. Everyone who has posted has given wonderful insights not just for why people price kitties the way they do, but how they tackle the problem of bringing one's cattery closer to self-sufficiency.

The issue of self-sufficiency is one that is often misunderstood. Its not about "breeding for profit", per se. Its a matter of helping defray the cost of one hobby so that it can grow and add something of interest and value not just for breeders but for shoppers equally.
I have a set of notecards in inventory that I reread from time to time, from Juiceberry Farm, dated around October through December of 2011. A couple of them by Theodore Nacht, "Understanding Market Basics for Breedables," and "Using Market Basics for Breedables," talk about these issues -- the devaluation, as well as the redemption one experiences when breeding is not just a rat-race for money but is rather done for love, a kind of aesthetic journey ... pursuit of a dream, expressing thoughts and longings through our personal configurations of kitten-ears and whiskers. (Now I'm feeling self-conscious about writing this, knowing that y'all will notice my mixed metaphors and mangled syntax. Oh and rambling. I notice it too but ... I can't do any better. )

In the notecard, Theodore talks about the nature of pricing."

I would love a copy of this notecard because I am always looking for ways to improve my practices not just in kittycats, but in my clothing as well. I will never get rich doing either, or even break even. But the more efficiently I do things, the better I am able to produce things worth producing..just like in RL.

"This doesn't mean that our priceless kitties themselves are devalued -- just the expectations of their prices on the market...(Or of course, someone can sell it for 99 L if he or she is happy to subsidize the cost --buying and raising its parents and marketing it -- from RL funds or unrelated SL funds.) "

Ding Ding Ding! You hit the nail right on the head!

"Not all of us want to "play store" and become professional shopkeepers -- some of us totally suck at this aspect of the game."

LOL I had to laugh at this because I give away many outfits and kitties that I definitely fall under the heading of "i suck at this aspect" I give them away under certain circumstances, or I make trades when the person doesn't have the L$ to buy and they want it. Often times I accept something I dont need, but its my way of doing things to keep 'the machine' going. Many of us have been there...we buy things at auctions we dont need even if we have better sitting in the cattery. But we do it to support the owner, the sim and/or the overall commerce.

"but quite a lot of them turned into upstanding members of the gene pool -- probably reviving some old traits in the process ... like Forest eyes and such. "

Hmmm I think I got a Forest eyed kitty that way...maybe it was yours!
Yes, some gatcha kitties go on to do great things either in the breeding or on the shoulder.

"I have to comment about the idea that "anyone can buy two boxes, breed them together, and sell the result." Actually ... that, too, is an art that ought to be respected when it's done well, or even when it's done badly and expresses someone's ... individual kitty-making goals."

Ok, this is something that Im glad you addressed. As a RL breeder exhibitor, I am very conscious of the fact that any two animals can be put together by anyone to make a third. Which is fine if the overall elevation and improvement of a 'breed' is not a concern. But I cant help but remember always that it cost as much to feed excellence as it does to feed whatever. And because I am so aware of this, and know first hand the care it takes and the sacrifices sometimes made, that I have only the utmost respect for those who take the time to do it right. They put their time, money, thought and when they produce something as a result it must be respected. Your description about the OES and Blk Bengal tells me that you dont just put any two together to make a box. You have a plan. In my head I am usually at least 2 generations planned ahead.

"Theodore's notecard says some really good things about making your own kitties hold their value in a competitive and treacherous market -- though he's writing at the end of 2011. "... If you undercut your competitors, you help no one."

That is absolutely right! I feel that in the end everyone loses who is left when the dust settles.

"I don't agree with him that the price of the identical "product" needs to be identical. How are we supposed to know all the comparable prices?"

Neither do I. I have a pricing formula that is simple but even It has its little quirks and is influenced, believe it or not, by how much I paid for the kitties who brought in certain traits, how long it took me to pull those traits, and always consider what the market will bear. I have to consider also whether I am selling out of my land or have store rent to pay. Anything from my own land will cost less than if I have to sell out of a rented space. Also, With "product" that results from a gene pool, its never simple. In KC where we can only see to the grandparents, its even harder. In RL I can pull up to 12 generations in the blink of an eye and am aware of potential 'gotchas!'

"However ... if I am pretty sure "my product uses better ingredients" than some superficially identical boxes, then I'm not worried that shoppers would choose another cat because of its 99L price."

Ingredients, a term i use alot in kittycats! And its spot on because if we look at the genetic stew we are trying to create and understand, every single ingredient is there for a lonnnng time once its in. So anyone who looks at most of my pedigrees will see alot of inbreeding and tight linebreeding. I try my best that no matter what comes from a breeding, I will likely say woo hoo because most of the possibilities would be satisfactory to me even if i didnt get that 9T Mega Tortie LOL...if i got a well traited 8T normal size, Im a happy camper...and if its hiding other delicious things WOO HOO! But I also see alot of newcommers who buy kitties for phenotype and dont know about how genotype influences the outcome of banging boxes. And yes, before anyone says it, they Should learn it before they buy...but how many actually do? They will buy a pretty little black bengal and one to match and think for sure they will get a replica of one of the parents...that expectation is the cause of disappointment most of the time when they end up with whatever. I always tell newcommers "buy good and end up with Great".

"Thanks for your indulgence in letting me say all this "

No Thank You for your excellent reply.

Quote:I am in Kittycats as a hobby.

I breed as a hobby.

I sell as a hobby. I like keeping a shop, I like deciding which kitties I want to sell to other homes.. Its fun.

I don't expect my kitty sales to pay for my kibble. I never have. I only buy or breed the kitties I can afford to feed.

Since I don't expect the income from sales to balance my expenses on cats and kibble, the prices I set have *nothing* whatsoever to do with needing money to keep up my cats. In a business, costs and income should balance. In a hobby, there is no such expectation.

If you interpret the prices I set on my cats as being driven by some short term need for kibble or some desire to make up what I spent on special editions, you couldn't be more wrong.

Assuming that all of us in Kittycats, or that all of us who care about Kittycats, share your business perspective, is assuming way too much.

Surely we all have our own reasons for being here, for breeding what we breed, and offering the kitties we set for sale at whatever prices we set.

And every reason, I think, is as valid as every other one.