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Starter Cat Breeding Questions - GiaMarlow Resident - 08-26-2018 11:19 PM
Hi all! I was at Kitten's class today, which was so very helpful, but I left with more questions than I knew how to ask. I've only just compiled my basic assumptions (feel free to tell me where I'm off base) and a couple of questions, so any advice would be very helpful.
I think I may have gotten in a little over my head. I bought the 5-pair pack, so I have 10 adorable kittens. But, if I did the math right (always a concern when it comes to me) that means I have 90 hidden traits. (!!!) I'm not breeding for anything specific, at least not now, but I had planned on pulling the hidden traits. I'm just not sure about the best way to go about doing that in the most efficient time frame possible, given that the cats will have 106 days to breed, give or take.
First, do starter cats always show the trait that is the highest on the dominance list? For example, I have four kittens with Genesis Evergreen eyes. Any kittens from those pairings will never have Genesis Aqua, because that's the highest on the dominance list. Would that be accurate?
Second, do I want to avoid breeding like for like when it comes to furs and eyes? I have a boy and a girl with Bandit II fur. One has Evergreen eyes and the other has Sunflower. So if I pair these two, will the fur always be Bandit II? Will what I'm looking for in the kitten be something other than one of those two eye colors, in addition looking at to the other 7 traits? If a kitten shows a Double Odyssey Love eye, how on earth do I know which parent it came from? Would that just be through continued breeding?
Third, several attendees at the class mentioned using spreadsheets to track their cat's breeding progress. While I am not at all interested obtaining anyone's intellectual property, what kind of information is the most useful to track?
Any insight would be helpful, and thank you!
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - Kayla Woodrunner - 08-27-2018 12:38 AM
1. All cats have two traits for fur, eyes, shade, tail, ears, whisker shape, whisker color. All cats will show the most dominant of any they have. So whatever is shown they have and they will have the same or more recessive hidden depending on their parents.
With starter cats, they will show a genesis trait and hide a more recessive non-genesis trait.
Some caveats: Confetti cats have 4 furs. The latest tiger collection starter cats had 3 furs.
2. You only breed like to like if you want to have that fur or eye or whatever. For example do you like the Bandit II fur? Yes, no? If no, breed the Bandit II starter cat to a nonstarter cat with a recessive fur to pop the hidden fur from the Bandit II starter cat. Don't just breed like to like just because it's fashionable -- you will not be able to custom design your own cats with the traits you want them to have. People buy "ready made" cats to breed like to like because some people buy pairs to breed together and don't really get into the whole breeding thing -- they are more into the whole selling thing and don't care if their cats are copycats rather than custom-designed/couture cats. It's faster to buy two alike cats and put them together to sell as the likelihood of babies being the same as mom and pop is higher.
But it's a game (remember that!) so whether you are into breeding or selling, remember to have fun.
If you like some traits but not other traits, for example you like the Bandit II fur but not the Genesis Evergreen eyes, then breed your Bandit II fur to a cat with the eyes you want. It's important to remember only breed like to like if you want to keep that trait. Breeding like to like only makes you more money if people want that trait -- which honestly most people aren't likely to buy an all genesis cat so it's not sellable if that's what you're into. They do make great giveaway cats to friends who just want a cat in their home.
2B. If you breed a starter cat Aa to starter cat Bb, it is very difficult to find the hids as they both have to throw hids for you to find what it is.
A is the shown fur of Cat Aa = genesis fur
a is the hidden fur of Cat Aa
B is the shown fur of Cat Bb = genesis fur
b is the hidden fur of Cat Bb
If you pair those two, their possible babies are:
AB = baby gets both genesis furs
Ab = baby gets genesis fur from mom and hidden fur from dad. Baby shows genesis fur because genesis fur is most dominant
aB = baby gets hidden fur from mom and shown fur from dad. Baby shows genesis fur because genesis fur is most dominant
ab = baby gets hidden fur from mom and hidden fur from dad. You will see the most dominant of the two hidden furs. Neither fur is genesis on a starter cat.
As you can see each scenario is 25% chance. If you want to find out if you have a new fur or eye or whatever hidden on the starter cat, you have to breed it to a cat with more recessive traits to pop the hids.
However if you breed a starter cat to a starter cat, then the baby might have genesis shown and genesis hid and it'll take a few generations to take off two genesis shown and hid fur if you want to change the fur. I did a post on what happens if you get stuck with a genesis shown and genesis hid, how long it took me to get it off. I was pretty new to KC back then. You might like it. The rules haven't changed for most cats (Confetti cats have four furs so they hare different)
https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=20252&pid=71648#pid71648
3. If you are tracking cats on a spreadsheet you need to track the shown and the hid. That way on their babies you will know their likely hid depending on which parent gives them the shown.
This is my spreadsheet
![[Image: fbcd3c0482ef4a28f1366c6e7732cd41.png]](https://gyazo.com/fbcd3c0482ef4a28f1366c6e7732cd41.png)
You can see the shown and right under it, the hid. You can see the parents, their shown and their hids. As you can see, I have Erich a starter cat showing and I know all of his hids except his fur. The other hids were revealed because I bred him to something more recessive. But I don't have anything more recessive than a Toyger Caramel so once I got back the caramel, I made a daughter with a more dominant fur. Now I am breeding his daughter to him hoping to get an ab child -- both hiddens thrown. Once both hiddens are thrown, I 'll know if he has caramel or something more recessive which would be a new fur for me.
For me it's more fun to find a new trait than to just buy it. As you get into Kittycats, remember the main thing is to find what is most fun for you whether it's breeding, selling, or creating roleplays like kitty hospitals on a ship (Cosmo had one of those).
Hope this helps you.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - GiaMarlow Resident - 08-27-2018 09:43 AM
Kayla, thank you so much!
The Bandit II is just fine, but it's not the cat's hidden trait which is what I'm after. I guess what I'd like to be able to do is get to a 9 traited cat, however I get it and and however it looks. That'll take some time and effort though. I'm just pretty sure I won't be able to get there with just the starter cats. It'll take several generations of breeding.
I'm reading through your other thread as I have time, but since I only have a 25% chance to get the hidden traits, you're saying that it's more effective to breed the starters to a cat with more recessive traits? I'm actually okay working my way through several generations with starters, mostly because I think it'll help me get a better handle on how this all works.
As for what I'll get out of it, I don't think I'll be able to get much out of selling, simply because I don't think I'll have the time to put into it. Breeding is like a puzzle though, and I like puzzles.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - HikariItsumo Resident - 08-27-2018 10:10 AM
(08-27-2018 12:38 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote: The latest tiger collection starter cats had 3 furs.
Did they ? I don't think so.
Another precision about starters : they are guaranteed to hide at least 6 traits out of 9 that are not genesis.
They are not guaranteed to hide mysterious eye shape, small pupils and a shade.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - Arwen Swordthain - 08-27-2018 01:32 PM
(08-27-2018 10:10 AM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote:(08-27-2018 12:38 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote: The latest tiger collection starter cats had 3 furs.
Did they ? I don't think so.
Another precision about starters : they are guaranteed to hide at least 6 traits out of 9 that are not genesis.
They are not guaranteed to hide mysterious eye shape, small pupils and a shade.
Its possible Kayla was refering to The Shown Costume Fur, the Genesis starter fur and the Hidden fur when she said 3 furs. This would indeed be true of all collection cats.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - MitsuruKirijo06 Resident - 08-27-2018 01:41 PM
(08-27-2018 01:32 PM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:(08-27-2018 10:10 AM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote:(08-27-2018 12:38 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote: The latest tiger collection starter cats had 3 furs.
Did they ? I don't think so.
Another precision about starters : they are guaranteed to hide at least 6 traits out of 9 that are not genesis.
They are not guaranteed to hide mysterious eye shape, small pupils and a shade.
Its possible Kayla was refering to The Shown Costume Fur, the Genesis starter fur and the Hidden fur when she said 3 furs. This would indeed be true of all collection cats.
The Tiger collection has a chance at hiding at least 6 new furs but 4 of those are limited to the collection. So if its just a regular starter then its only 2 furs right now.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - Arwen Swordthain - 08-27-2018 01:54 PM
(08-27-2018 01:41 PM)MitsuruKirijo06 Resident Wrote:(08-27-2018 01:32 PM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:(08-27-2018 10:10 AM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote:(08-27-2018 12:38 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote: The latest tiger collection starter cats had 3 furs.
Did they ? I don't think so.
Another precision about starters : they are guaranteed to hide at least 6 traits out of 9 that are not genesis.
They are not guaranteed to hide mysterious eye shape, small pupils and a shade.
Its possible Kayla was refering to The Shown Costume Fur, the Genesis starter fur and the Hidden fur when she said 3 furs. This would indeed be true of all collection cats.
The Tiger collection has a chance at hiding at least 6 new furs but 4 of those are limited to the collection. So if its just a regular starter then its only 2 furs right now.
I don't believe Kayla was refering to the number of new furs that could potentially hide in the starters but to the starters themselves as having 3 furs, which in the case of a collection cat is indeed true as I stated, the Costume, The Genesis fur and the hidden fur does indeed mean the collection cats have 3 furs. Since this was added with the statement that Confetti cats have 4 furs, the two confetti, shown and hid plus the 2 "normal" shown and hid its my belief thats what Kayla was refering too since she didn't say "new" furs.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - HikariItsumo Resident - 08-27-2018 03:54 PM
There is a huge difference in hiding 4 furs like the confettis do (and that can pass) and hiding 2 furs that can pass like the Tiger Tiger ! Collection does.
The costume of the Tiger Tigers ! is a costume, which is not the case for the Confettis that are not costumed cats but "special starters".
Let's try and not confuse new breeders.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - Arwen Swordthain - 08-28-2018 02:44 AM
(08-27-2018 03:54 PM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote: There is a huge difference in hiding 4 furs like the confettis do (and that can pass) and hiding 2 furs that can pass like the Tiger Tiger ! Collection does.
The costume of the Tiger Tigers ! is a costume, which is not the case for the Confettis that are not costumed cats but "special starters".
Let's try and not confuse new breeders.
I'm sure it was not Kaylas intention to confuse anyone. I was simply trying to clarify what she meant to avoid said confusion. Collection cat costumes do confuse many new breeders anyway as they don't realise at first that it won't pass. Therefore is it helpful to point out that collection cats have 3 furs, the Unbreedable Costume, the Genesis fur and the hidden fur. Especially since many new breeders start with a collection cat.
RE: Starter Cat Breeding Questions - MitsuruKirijo06 Resident - 08-28-2018 02:49 AM
(08-27-2018 03:54 PM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote: There is a huge difference in hiding 4 furs like the confettis do (and that can pass) and hiding 2 furs that can pass like the Tiger Tiger ! Collection does.
The costume of the Tiger Tigers ! is a costume, which is not the case for the Confettis that are not costumed cats but "special starters".
Let's try and not confuse new breeders.
Collection cats like the Tiger Tigers and other starters can only hide one fur not 2 and the confettis only hide one normal fur, a genesis fur and another confetti fur so thats 3 hidden confetti furs not 4.