Here's a dilemma I've experienced often and I'd like to put this out here for discussion to see what others have to say about it.
I like to support other breeders, and I often buy other people's KittyCats, usually live ones at "love shacks" and other live tables, even though I have (just checked) 14,102 boxes in my online cattery, because we're a community and we should support each other. So, rather than popping a box and waiting, I buy someone else's cat instead.
Unfortunately, the result is often that my nicest cats do not meet the usual "grandparent rule" for auctions, requiring that the seller must own at least one of the grandparents.
What do you all think about the tension between supporting other breeders by buying their cats, and the customary grandparent rule at auctions? Would there be any creative solutions that we might be able to work out so that people don't have to choose?
oh wow how interesting. i didn't know the community had rules as to what could be sold at an auction! had NO idea!
why is it a rule that the sell must own a grandparent? really curious!
thanks!
Hi Callie! The idea is to avoid "cat-flipping" by people who don't do any serious breeding of their own, they just buy a cat from Person A and a cat from Person B, produce a kitten and then try to put it up for auction as their own work product, even though all the hard work of up-traiting the cats over generations was done by someone else.
I do respect the reasons for the rule. I understand that it doesn't look any different from the pedigree when I buy Live Cat A and then buy Live Cat B and I didn't breed either one of them, but I get something awesome and want to share it at an auction, than when some random cat-flipper does the same thing.
Maybe, for example, there could be one auction a month per sim that doesn't use the grandparent rule? It's possible that some places already do this. That's why I wanted to open up the topic for discussion.
Surely not every auction has this rule. Just use another auction.
Frankly, I don't see the point of auctions. Whenever I'm in doing some work for Charm, all the auctions seem to end with "future sale" so they seem rather pointless to me.
ah ok i understand better now.
thank you for explaining!
What if a person bought a cat, at an auction which it didn't breed, and another which is didn't breed (at the same auction) and it had a baby, does that mean they can't sell that baby at an auction because it didn't own the grandparents?
just curious... (we sold dogs growing up, and customers would buy our dogs to breed them, and we bought other people's dogs as well to breed with ours)
anyway this is so interesting!
(02-22-2023 01:09 AM)Ellen Ireland Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Callie! The idea is to avoid "cat-flipping" by people who don't do any serious breeding of their own, they just buy a cat from Person A and a cat from Person B, produce a kitten and then try to put it up for auction as their own work product, even though all the hard work of up-traiting the cats over generations was done by someone else.
I do respect the reasons for the rule. I understand that it doesn't look any different from the pedigree when I buy Live Cat A and then buy Live Cat B and I didn't breed either one of them, but I get something awesome and want to share it at an auction, than when some random cat-flipper does the same thing.
Maybe, for example, there could be one auction a month per sim that doesn't use the grandparent rule? It's possible that some places already do this. That's why I wanted to open up the topic for discussion.
I think if the rule requires only one out of four grandparents, that leaves quite a bit of leeway to add traits from other's lines into yours and still qualify, while still discouraging naked cat flipping. A person flipping a kitten box likely didn't breed it at all, may not even own the parents. I think that should be discouraged.
Hi again Callie! Yes, if the auction has the grandparent rule, which most do, that would be true.
One of the reasons for this post was to hear from people who might have some auctions which are an exception to this rule. (I floated the idea of one per month per sim without that rule, but that was only a suggestion.)
I do buy other people's cats at auction and those are usually very good cats since most people put up only their best at auction, so it would be a shame to let them languish too long as boxes in my cattery. I do tend to breed the ones I buy, and if I breed the cats I purchased to each other, that does result in an auction-ineligible generation. I can get auction-eligible cats in the next generation, but by then I have often been distracted by the next shiny thing.
(02-22-2023 10:17 AM)Callie Cline Wrote: [ -> ]ah ok i understand better now.
thank you for explaining!
What if a person bought a cat, at an auction which it didn't breed, and another which is didn't breed (at the same auction) and it had a baby, does that mean they can't sell that baby at an auction because it didn't own the grandparents?
just curious... (we sold dogs growing up, and customers would buy our dogs to breed them, and we bought other people's dogs as well to breed with ours)
anyway this is so interesting!
(02-22-2023 01:09 AM)Ellen Ireland Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Callie! The idea is to avoid "cat-flipping" by people who don't do any serious breeding of their own, they just buy a cat from Person A and a cat from Person B, produce a kitten and then try to put it up for auction as their own work product, even though all the hard work of up-traiting the cats over generations was done by someone else.
I do respect the reasons for the rule. I understand that it doesn't look any different from the pedigree when I buy Live Cat A and then buy Live Cat B and I didn't breed either one of them, but I get something awesome and want to share it at an auction, than when some random cat-flipper does the same thing.
Maybe, for example, there could be one auction a month per sim that doesn't use the grandparent rule? It's possible that some places already do this. That's why I wanted to open up the topic for discussion.
(02-22-2023 08:42 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: [ -> ]Surely not every auction has this rule. Just use another auction.
Frankly, I don't see the point of auctions. Whenever I'm in doing some work for Charm, all the auctions seem to end with "future sale" so they seem rather pointless to me.
I have to add .02 to this - there are definitely auctions that don't end with "future sales". Indeed during any auction, there may be panels that don't sell. But I regularly attend auctions at which every single panel is sold. This happened just last night, and it's not a rare occurrence. I love auctions, they are a place where we can get together and talk about the kitties and the traits and what we like, and just have fun with other breeders and lovers of our kitties!
What bothers me more, and touches on the topic of this thread, is folks who go to auctions only to sell THEIR cat and rarely, if ever, bid on a cat. To me the auctions are all about the community, and I absolutely love to bid on fabulous cats bred by others. Also, if my cat doesn't get bids, I still had fun with all the folks, talking about kitties and stuff.
So, if the auctions you attend all end with "future sales", try another auction!
(02-23-2023 01:22 PM)Songdog Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]I have to add .02 to this - there are definitely auctions that don't end with "future sales". Indeed during any auction, there may be panels that don't sell. But I regularly attend auctions at which every single panel is sold. This happened just last night, and it's not a rare occurrence. I love auctions, they are a place where we can get together and talk about the kitties and the traits and what we like, and just have fun with other breeders and lovers of our kitties!
What bothers me more, and touches on the topic of this thread, is folks who go to auctions only to sell THEIR cat and rarely, if ever, bid on a cat. To me the auctions are all about the community, and I absolutely love to bid on fabulous cats bred by others. Also, if my cat doesn't get bids, I still had fun with all the folks, talking about kitties and stuff.
So, if the auctions you attend all end with "future sales", try another auction!
I sympathise with people not bidding on cats, because I wouldn't be able to either. Someone might sell cats because they need the money for things like tier payment.
So, I tried to make a resolution to stop buying other people's KittyCats (among a few other things, the rest of which are not relevant here) for Lent but that resolution didn't last long. I saw a kitty at L$300 at an auction today with the Foxie Argyle fur, which always looks so soft and snuggly and which we don't see at auctions very often, and poof, resolution broken, another KittyCat purchased at auction. I just have to convince myself now to put off unpacking that kitty and pairing it with another Argyle until I finish some of my current breeding projects, which have resulted in lots of kitties to feed.
Realistically, I am not going to stop buying other people's cats! I have too low a resistance to temptation. :-) So, maybe I'll set up an occasional auction of my own, not too often, just once in a while.