I've been breeding a pair of cats for a while, trying to get the male's eyes with the female's fur, but so far all the kittens (all seven of them!) have basically been clones of their mom.
I'm starting to think it might be easier to get that coloring by breeding the kittens, but I'm not sure how to pair them. Would it be better to breed siblings to each other, or back breed one of them to the dad?
(02-11-2016 10:26 AM)Kymrie Resident Wrote: [ -> ]I've been breeding a pair of cats for a while, trying to get the male's eyes with the female's fur, but so far all the kittens (all seven of them!) have basically been clones of their mom.
I'm starting to think it might be easier to get that coloring by breeding the kittens, but I'm not sure how to pair them. Would it be better to breed siblings to each other, or back breed one of them to the dad?
Can you post Pictures of the Pedigree's of Mom and Dad? A possible reason why the babies are looking like clones of mommy might be because Dad's traits are Recessive to Mom's shown and possibly Hiddens. If mom's traits are Dominate then they will always show up on her kittens. It is hard to give you advice for your situation with out seeing exactly what each parent has showing or possibly hiding.
(02-11-2016 10:38 AM)Brunabug Nightfire Wrote: [ -> ]Can you post Pictures of the Pedigree's of Mom and Dad? A possible reason why the babies are looking like clones of mommy might be because Dad's traits are Recessive to Mom's shown and possibly Hiddens. If mom's traits are Dominate then they will always show up on her kittens. It is hard to give you advice for your situation with out seeing exactly what each parent has showing or possibly hiding.
The mom's traits are probably dominant, but I was hoping for at least a little variation among the kittens instead of a clone army. xP
Here are the pedigrees:
Mom's pedigree
Dad's pedigree
(02-11-2016 05:28 PM)Kymrie Resident Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2016 10:38 AM)Brunabug Nightfire Wrote: [ -> ]Can you post Pictures of the Pedigree's of Mom and Dad? A possible reason why the babies are looking like clones of mommy might be because Dad's traits are Recessive to Mom's shown and possibly Hiddens. If mom's traits are Dominate then they will always show up on her kittens. It is hard to give you advice for your situation with out seeing exactly what each parent has showing or possibly hiding.
The mom's traits are probably dominant, but I was hoping for at least a little variation among the kittens instead of a clone army. xP
Here are the pedigrees:
Mom's pedigree
Dad's pedigree
Do you know about the SAGA Dominance Charts? SAGA FElIX was one of the first breeders of KittyCatS 6 yrs ago. She and a bunch of other breeders figured out how the breeding system worked.
Here is a link to
SAGA. The list shows all the traits for each catagory. The ones on the top of the list are Dominate, and the ones below are Recessive. For example if you look at any eye color, the ones listed above it are Dominate to it and the ones below are Recessive to it. Not sure how much you understand about breeding and don't want to talk down to you. But just in case anyone else is reading this post- Both cats will toss either their shown eye or hidden eye. There is 4 possible outcomes for eye color each time. (For each of the traits for that matter). An with each toss the more Dominate of the two will always show.
Just looking at the shown eyes of both your kitties the male has the Fancie Dusky Diamond and the female has the Platiumn. The Platiumn is more dominate and if both cats toss their showns then that is what will show up. If the female has a more recessive eye hiding than the Fancie Dusky Diamond eye and she tosses that eye you might see the Fancie Dusky Diamond eye show.
Now looking at the fur situation
Bali Lilac is more Dominate to the Occicat Ebony Silver. So could be why you are seeing the Bali Lilac fur showing up a lot on the kittens. Just a heads up mommy might be hiding Foxie Salt and Pepper. If that is the case and mommy tosses her hidden (Possibly Foxie Salt and Pepper or something even more recessive on the list) and Daddy tosses his shown Ocicat Ebony Silver then you might see a few of the kittens with the Ocicat EbySilver fur showing.
With out actually seeing each of the kittens that they have produced it is hard to really tell you if these two cats will produce what you are looking to get. I think the fur should work for you..but I am pretty sure that the eye will never show and the Fancie Dusky Diamond will always be hiding. You might consider breeding a daughter of your pair back to the father as long as she is showing the Bali Lilac fur. But know you might get OciEbSilver kittens because she will be hiding that fur or something more recessive from Daddy.
I am not sure if I helped...or confused you more. If you want you can try and IM me in world and we can meet up to discuss your project further.
I've seen the Saga charts. They've been pretty helpful with my other breeding projects. Sounds like this one will be a little more challenging than the others, though. I'll try back breeding and see if it works. And I'm
really hoping the foxy salt and pepper doesn't pop up. I have a bunch of them from other pairings, and it always shows up when you least expect it.
Thanks for the advice!
With the grandparents unknown in the charts you posted, the odds are a bit harder to pin down than if we knew them. That said, and ignoring some very unlikely edge conditions, (and all-things-being-equal,) the odds are approximately:
1-in-4 Balinese Lilac Lynx hiding Ocicat Ebony Silver or better
1-in-8 Between Lilac Lynx and Ocicat Ebony Silver hiding Ocicat Ebony Silver or better. This shows Silvia's recessive. This presumes Silvia got Ocicat Ebony Silver from Porter and 'Ocicat Ebony Silver or better' from Helen. If she got 'Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask or better' from Porter (1-in-3 odds), this can't occur and the next three cases become more likely to make up for it.
3-in-8 Ocicat Ebony Silver hiding Ocicat Ebony Silver or better
1-in-8 * Between Ocicat Ebony Silver and Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask, hiding Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask or better. This shows Frost's recessive
1-in-8 * Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask hiding Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask or better
* These last two cases presume Silvia hides Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask. The odds shift to showing Frost's recessive the more recessive Silvia actually hides.
This is *VERY* rough, makes some assumptions about the odds in starters, that the unknown grandparents add no information, and you have no offspring from either parent.
All-in-all, if your only goal is to avoid getting Foxie Salt and Pepper Mask, I'd say "Go for it" and breed them together.
What you should do, of course, depends heavily upon your goals.
Your OP, on reading back, is to get Frost's eyes on Silvia's Ocicat Ebony Silver. Your odds, per box, of success, are on the order of 1-in-16. So you're likely to need to go to the offspring Backbreeding can help. But I'd leave the parents together, get all the boxes I could, and cross the offspring out the ying-yang (unless you get an offspring which is definitely better than Frost).
Thanks for the advice! I have a ton of kittens I can cross, so hopefully one of them will have some luck.