For those of you know don't know what the term Cat Flipping means, it means buying someone else's cat (live or boxed) and then selling it on, usually for a much higher profit and usually without breeding any kitties from live flipped kitties first.
Cat Flipping is frowned upon by most if not all Auctioneers (they really don't like that) and most Kitty based Sims don't much like it either especially when it comes to bidboards and the such. Most sims have it as part of their agreement when you rent (some have it on their websites). I know many Auctioneers who don't like flip kitties in any situation and look very dimly on those who are flipping cats.
Your probably wondering who am I to open my mouth about something like this ....... here's the back ground. I have been breeding for a few months when I put my first Mega in an Auction. It was a Pink and White so of course it sold (for less than 4k). Some time later I was walking around the same Sim and came across my cat, still boxed and priced at 13k.
Kitty flipping is a very dishonest way to trade. It takes a breeders hard work to create that kitty and then for them to pay out for the Auction / Bidboard / Store for someone then to come, buy that kitty as cheep as chips (English saying) and then resell for much more. This makes you dishonest, making money off of another breeders hard work. It's also not very nice for the original breeder to find that cat up for sale / bid / offer and a considerably higher price.
What I am trying to say in a sentence or two is ........ Please stop kitty flipping, I makes a mockery of the breeder and makes you look dishonest. (packs soap box away).
Hope you all have a great day, hope you enjoy breeding and hope you get the kitties you wish for
Very well said my friend.It just happened to my daughter's cherryberry confetti cat. Although the confettis are based upon luck she priced it lower to help newer breeders or older get a confetti for a great price. Because she is quittng cats. And yes people will take advantage of it.While she has the heart of gold it was up on a bidboard by a staff member at that sim and the bidding was at 3k. It's really sad to see this happen. Yes if you buy a cat its yours to do what you want with it however if you didn't breed it and are just flipping to make money well that's really unfair of you. Anyway I hope people stop doing this, it's bad for the market.
To me, Kitty-Flipping is more a case of sour grapes because they COULD have asked for more but didn't. If you feel people are doing that to you, it's a clear sign they think you're under-valuing your cats.
I agree, auctioneers should frown upon it. But, here, it looks bad because it is a clear indicator that they are not doing their job right by getting the best possible price for the seller.
As to its being bad for the market, no, I'd suggest it's good. Yes, it's bad for the individual seller who finds they've had a cat flipped. But it does push the average price up, which is what y'all want, right?
And it's not 'dishonest' .. it's done all the time in the Real World. Heck, in the Real World, I can even sell something I don't yet own in the hopes of being able to pick it up cheaper in a few days. What do you think they DO all day at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange?
I admit to cat flipping. Its easy to buy under priced kitties to resell. Some people don't know what they have so they price them extremly low. Or they just desprate to get rid of them. It can go both ways. Yes kitty flipping is fround apon. But, some people price their kitties so low, making it easy to buy and flip them for profit. I am not after a large profit, I just want to sell kitties but don't want to go through the hassles of breeding.
As my profile says: “Yes, I do practice KittyCat Arbitrage. I buy kitties at Going Out of Business Sales and resale them at fair/reasonable prices. I always try to be fair and honest, and not take advantage of others. I am always happiest when I make a deal where everyone benefits.”
It’s not true arbitrage in the purest sense because there is usually some time delay, and I always take on the risk that I could lose money.
Of course, I would never take a cat like that to an auction because I know they are focused on the breeding, and usually want the parents, if not the grandparents, to be owned by the seller. Heck, when I got a new trait from one of my own collection cats, I was hesitant to take the box to auctions because I had previously purchased the other parent (the puller).
However, if a seller sells a sick cat for L$150 because they need the money or are leaving breeding, and I pay that plus L$290 to heal it and L$1 to rent a bid board (for a total of L$441 + food and milk until it's sold) and list it there for L$1000, wondering if that is too much because it only has 3-4 boxes left and they might all be genesis cats, it is hardly my fault when it is bid up to L$3001.
Half of that L$3000 then covered the cost of permapetting the other sick cat that I bought from her, according to her suggestion. I also bought my new girl a collar and have worn her on my shoulder for the better part of two days because I think she’s so utterly cute.
If your daughter had sold a live mate of breeding age with the boy that I resold, I might have bought them both and bred them – I have been thinking about whether I want to breed confettis - but he didn’t have a lot of breeding time to waste, and I didn’t have a suitable mate ready for him.
Sometimes I buy a box because it’s a good price on a trait that I might like to add to one of my lines, but I wait to birth it. Later, I find a cat that works better for what I want to do at the same or better price, often with more traits as well, so I turn around and sell the first box... sometimes at a loss. Is that flipping? How many days, weeks or months do I need to wait so that it’s not?
I’m usually very picky when buying and either purchase cats that I want myself or that I know I can sell for at least twice as much without fleecing anyone. I suspect the same is not true of the person who is trying to sell the mega for such a high price. And I do mean “trying”. I see plenty of cats sitting around gathering dust at prices that people simply won’t pay. I know that some sellers feel that if a cat actually does sell, that they priced it too low, but to me that is a sign of someone who hopes to take advantage of people. I try to price according to what people do actually pay, and then I am accused of pricing things too low…usually by the same people who have issues with everything else. Quite frankly, if Cali were someone else, you'd likely be blaming her for underpricing a sick, 93 day old, confetti cat.
BTW, I actually got another older cat that was offered for free this past weekend. In that case, I contacted the original owner and told her that I'd like it to test a particular trait on an LE starter, and she passed it to me. No, it’s NOT up on a bid board somewhere; it’s playing in my garden, partnered with the mate that I needed it for.
It comes down to this:
If you only want to sell it to a certain people, then ask those people to contact you to buy the cat.
Stop trying to make people out as evil if they sell higher than you like, lower that you like, flip your cat for a profit, or resell it later for a loss.
If you think it could sell for more, then price it higher, and see if it sells.
If it doesn’t sell, wait a while or try another venue. If it eventually doesn’t sell within the amount of time that you are comfortable with, then consider that maybe your expectations - and your price - are too high. And yes, advertise!
Be responsible for your pricing decisions, and act accordingly, rather than blaming others when they simply bought a cat that you put up for sale.
P.S. For the record, I bought the confetti cats at the prices for which they were set. I certainly would never have asked for the price to be lowered that low, especially on the breeding age one. I don't always know if I want to keep a cat or resell it when I buy it, but I always try to be honest about my intentions. In this case, I wasn't asked. They were set out for sale and advertised.
(01-18-2016 08:52 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: [ -> ]And it's not 'dishonest' .. it's done all the time in the Real World. Heck, in the Real World, I can even sell something I don't yet own in the hopes of being able to pick it up cheaper in a few days. What do you think they DO all day at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange?
It is actually VERY dishonest, making money off someone else, that's like being a pimp, getting money off your girls for what THEY do, it equates to the same thing. I have never flipped a cat, I sell MY kitties, the ones I put time, effort and money into. Flippers are just in it for the Linden and to get what they can, stuff anyone else. If it's done by mistake and corrected, there's no harm but those that repeat this, do it on purpose and those who should know better well, that's very different. It's a matter for good faith or a lack of it. As for the "Chicago Mercentile Exchange" ...... I haven't the first clue what that is as I'm British.
(01-18-2016 09:20 AM)phoenixfire01 Resident Wrote: [ -> ]that's like being a pimp, getting money off your girls for what THEY do
No, that would be paying for stud service or for a surrogate mom, which also happens all the time in the real world.
How selfish.*shakes head* If someone doesnt know what toprice a cat I always iM them and say they can get more for it. I NEVER resell what isnt mine. It's very dishonest as Red has said. Oh well, i know it won't stop but its cruel.
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No, that would be paying for stud service or for a surrogate mom, which also happens all the time in the real world.
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No it isn't. It's nothing like Stud Service, that would be the 100% love shacks and Surrogacy involves a contract. Flipper is taking advantage for profit and self gain.
OK. For you Brits .. the London Commodity Exchange. If you're elsewhere, just read the name of your local commodity exchange. You have one, even if you've never looked.
Consider: Kroger, WalMart, and Tesco (for you Brits) do nothing more than purchase something, mark it up, and sell it. What they are doing is:
* moving it from here, to there
* buying it yesterday, to have it available today
So, that 'flipper' y'all hate is:
1) Raising the average price per cat.
2) Offering cats at the markets which get better prices by taking from those where they don't.
3) Offering cats when or where the demand is higher by purchasing them when when or where the demand was lower.
None of these are bad things. But, if you insist on calling this activity 'dishonest' so be it. All that the 'flipper' is doing is making a bit of extra money, when they guess correctly, at the cost of the money they lose when they don't/
Remember, in other threads, the idea of telling people to raise their prices has been discussed. This behavior can, and often does, come across as irritating, if not abusive. It presupposes that YOU know better than THEY .. unless you're the auctioneer they're talking to, that's nothing more than hubris.