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Saga's chart currently has

"Violet is dominant to Odyssey Bellini and recessive to Platinum - more info, please"

This chart proves Violet is recessive to Strawberry Bellini.



Farrah, the mom, shows Strawberry Bellini
Nesby, the dad, shows Grotto

The child shows Violet, therefore Violet is the hid of mom Farrah

Violet is somewhere between Strawberry Bellini -- Odyssey Bellini

If you have a chart proving Violet is recessive or dominant to either of the following eyes, please post it here and/or send it to Saga's charts

Strawberry Bellini
Fancie Purple Diamond (Ltd.Ed.)
Odyssey Kaleidoscope
Jade (Ltd.Ed.)
Royal Sapphire (Ltd.Ed.)
Tapestry Organica
Prismatic
Blush Quartz (Ltd.Ed.)
Odyssey Bellini

(06-15-2015 07:31 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote: [ -> ]Saga's chart currently has

"Violet is dominant to Odyssey Bellini and recessive to Platinum - more info, please"

This chart proves Violet is recessive to Strawberry Bellini.



Farrah, the mom, shows Strawberry Bellini
Nesby, the dad, shows Grotto

The child shows Violet, therefore Violet is the hid of mom Farrah

Violet is somewhere between Strawberry Bellini -- Odyssey Bellini

If you have a chart proving Violet is recessive or dominant to either of the following eyes, please post it here and/or send it to Saga's charts

Strawberry Bellini
Fancie Purple Diamond (Ltd.Ed.)
Odyssey Kaleidoscope
Jade (Ltd.Ed.)
Royal Sapphire (Ltd.Ed.)
Tapestry Organica
Prismatic
Blush Quartz (Ltd.Ed.)
Odyssey Bellini

fabulous job, Kayla. tyvm
hugs

Saga's chart now says
Violet is dominant to Blush Quartz and recessive to Strawberry Bellini

Strawberry Bellini
Fancie Purple Diamond (Ltd.Ed.)
Odyssey Kaleidoscope
Jade (Ltd.Ed.)
Royal Sapphire (Ltd.Ed.) Violet
Tapestry Organica
Prismatic
Blush Quartz (Ltd.Ed.)

So I put Danitza (Royal Sapphire eyes) with Vincent (Violet eyes, Exotic Breeze hid) and got Kirby who has Royal Sapphire eyes shown. Does he have Violet eyes hid? That is the question.
? Kirby DanitzaVincent
Fur: Foxie - Salt & Pepper Mask
Eyes: Royal Sapphire (Curious|Big)
Shade: Illume
Tail: Swanky
Ears: Odyssey No. 1
Whiskers: Black (Dreamy)
Size: Normal

Ok, birthed Kirby, waited 14 days
Then I put Kirby with Ebba (Grotto eyes)
Their baby got grotto eyes

Which means the Violet didn't pass in Kirby. He has Royal Sapphire eyes shown, Exotic Breeze hid. Kirby can no longer be used to test for Violet.

Darn! darn! darn!

(Oh well, I like his traits except the fur so will put him with maybe bengal tawny -- eyes would look great on that. Would look great on a cream lynx too but that black whisker is too strong for the white furs)

Violet is dom to Tap Organica.
This is a long-winded proof because it takes a lot of screen shots: Basically I ran a violet-eyed cat (Violetta) against a cat that I know to be TapOrg pure (Rumor). the first screen shot shows you the immediate baby, which shows Violet eyes. And the first part of the proof is simply: Violet shows, and the baby Cannot hide anything but TapOrg, ergo Violet is dom to TapOrg. The more complicated part of the proof is therefore showing that Rumor is indeed Tap Org pure.



Now I need to take you all the way through Rumor’s family tree when his line was first set up.

BersulesPedigree shows the first cats.



With Bersules you see the creation of the first charcoal bengal of the line. Clarissa is the matriarch - she shows the Double Dip Flora that shows on a lot of the cats of this line. (It doesn’t matter what she’s hiding, since she passes the DDFlora.) Boris shows Fancie Blue Diamond and hides something more rec (which we will show is TapOrg coming from Merrio). It is important to see that Boris is the source of the hidden. While Merrio may have had something hiding under his TapOrg, he can only have passed one eye to Boris.

SolveigPedigree shows the first cats.



Selucina is ALSO a Clarissa/Boris child. Like Bersules she shows the ddFlora, and hiding either FancieBlue or something more rec. The sibling breed of Bersules and Selucina produces Tarascon who shows ddFlora and hides either ddFlora or Boris’ hidden - but we can also see here that doing a backbreed with Tarascon to his mother reveals the hidden which is the TapOrganica and Solveig has it pure.

RumorPedigree takes us down the father of our Violet-eyed kitten.



Solveig we can see is showing the TapOrg and it is pure. Solveig is then backbred to her father (which was done to get the swanky whiskers). Tarascon’s hidden has to also be TapOrg since his hidden eye came from Boris. They produce Lonnell, who has the TapOrg pure from both parents. Solveig and Lonnell produce Rumor who has the TapOrg pure.

This brings us back to our new kitten. There she is. Refer back to her pedigree which I put into the first screenshot.

Ergo… Violet eye is dominant to Tapestry Organica. There is no other eye she can be hiding.

Incidently, Tapestry Allure is dominant to Morning Dew. It really is. But my proof would run exactly the same way: baby is showing TapAllure and can't hide anything else except Morning Dew because the Dad is Morning Dew pure. However, I've been running that line for a year and a half pure and the number of screen shots it would take to establish proof of purity is more than I want to wade through. So we'll have to wait until a TapAllure couple pops Morning Dew out from underneath on that one.

I love puzzles -- so this pedigree was really fun. Since I am a bit slower than you, I am walking thorough the charts by steps for people who are like me.

Starting with Chart 2 Berseules (I'm going to put letters as identifiers next to the kitties as they repeat)

A Mom Clarissa has Double Dip Flora shown
B Dad Boris has Fancie Blue diamond shown Tapestry Organica or more recessive hid

A shown + B hid = C (A shown/B hid)
C Berseules has Double Dip Flora shown
hid is from Dad either Fancie Blue Diamond shown, Tapestry Organica or more recessive if the grandpa Merrio Tapestry Organica hides something else
(later chart proves it is the hid that passed not the shown because Fancie Blue Diamond did not pass)

Chart 3 Solveig, looking at mom first Selucina because she is a sister to Berseules

A shown + B hid = D (A shown/B hid)
D Mom Selucina has same parents as Berseules
her Mom Clarissa has Double Dip Flora shown
her Dad Boris has Fancie Blue diamond shown Tapestry Organica or more recessive hid if the grandpa Merrio Tapestry Organica hides something else
(later chart proves it is the hid that passed not the shown because Fancie Blue Diamond did not pass)

Selucina has has Double Dip Flora shown like her brother Berseules
hid is from Dad either Fancie Blue Diamond, Tapestry Organica or more recessive
(later chart proves that both Selucina and Berseules received their Dad's hidden eye as their hidden.
Since Selucina and Berseules come from the same parents, if they both receive the same hidden eye from their Dad, they have the same hidden.)

Then on the Dad Tarascon you mated Berseules and Selucina in a brother/sister pairing
C + D = E (CorDshown/CorDhid)
E Tarascon has Double Dip Flora shown
He can have double dip flora hid or fancie blue diamond or tapestry organica or more recessive than tap organica
Shown is from either Selucina or Berseules
Hid is from either Selucina or Berseules

D + E = F (D hid/E hid)
You mated Tarascon back to his mother Selucina for a mother/son breeding to create Solveig

Solveig has Tapestry Organica which means Fancie Blue Diamond is lost and no longer in play. Since D Selucina and C Berseules have to have the same hid as both received their hids from the same Father, Tapestry Organica is proven to be that father's hid.

You have proven Tarascon is a double Tapestry Organica (phew!)

So recap

A Clarissa has Double Dip Flora shown
B Boris has Fancie Blue diamond shown / Tapestry Organica hid
A + B = C Berseules has Double Dip Flora shown / Tapestry Organica hid
A + B = D Selucina has Double Dip Flora shown / Tapestry Organica hid
C + D = E Tarascon has Double Dip Flora shown / Tapestry Organica hid
D + E = F Solveig has Tapestry Organica shown /Tapestry Organica hid)

Then you mated F Solveig back to Tarascon, her dad
E + F = G
G Lonnell has Tapestry Organica shown so recevied Tarascons hid and Solveig's shown or hid -- Solveig's shown and hid are the same
Lonnel is also a double Tapestry Organica

E + F = G Lonnell has Tapestry Organica shown /Tapestry Organica hid

You mated Lonell back to mom Solveig
F + G = H Rumor has Tapestry Organica shown /Tapestry Organica hid

Lonell and Solveig can pop babies all day long -- they will always be double Tapestry Organica as both are pure.

You have established without a doubt that Solveig, Lonell and Rumor are pure Tapestry Organica shown and hid

Then you mated Rumor to Violetta who has Violet shown
Their child has Violet shown
Rumor has to pass Tapestry Organica as it is both shown and hid
Child has both Violet and Tapestry Organica
Most dominant always shows
Violet shows
Violet is dominant to Tapestry Organica

Wow! that was sweet. Now we only need to prove Violet's dominance against Royal Sapphire and Violet will be placed -- so close!

Kayla,

Thank you so much for restating all of this. I know it's a convoluted thing: the proof/the post.

Kayla Wrote:Since I am a bit slower than you, I am walking thorough the charts by steps for people who are like me.

On the contrary, I've fussed over the line for months, so I've been able to see it slowly. The post is a quick summing up of something that happened in slow motion, so I don't think for a minute that your work is slow. I think you're fast on the uptake. I also think it's really helpful for others to have things restated a different way.
Glad you liked the puzzle, I hope other people like it too. I also hope it puts the brakes on people who think that a pedigree that simply shows two TapOrg parents have proof of pure-bred TapOrg (or any other trait). It does take a lot more than that.

thank you for providing all the proofs. People often state something is pure because mom and dad/grandma and grandad are without taking into the account fact that hiddens can pass for gens.

A pure matching shown and hidden needs proof and saying that line has had the same thing for gens doesn't really cut it. Proving "pure" or "solid" actually takes careful tracking. I am impressed with your tracking skills.

Pinning a tracking badge on Ivy with honors.

(10-04-2015 08:56 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]Kayla,

Thank you so much for restating all of this. I know it's a convoluted thing: the proof/the post.

Here it is: the long awaited proof for Violet vs Royal Sapphire to place Violet

Violet is dominant to Royal Sapphire so Violet is finally placed between Jade and Royal Sapphire! Yippee!



Mom shows Violet
Dad shows Blush Quartz
Baby shows Royal Sapphire
Known: Royal Sapphire is dominant to Blush Quartz
Therefore Royal Sapphire is mom's hid and proves Royal Sapphire is recessive to Violet!

WOW!!!! Such good work, and very thorough!

Thank you Oselkhandro! I love the way we all come together and share charts to establish dominance. I just think everyone is amazing working as a community