KittyCatS! Community Forum

Hi everyone!
Back in May 2013, Wendi, Sanura and I launched what we called the “Instructional Breeding Project”, a project designed to help breeders (new and old) understand how to work with a KittyCatS! ™ starter (see the original thread here… http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=9122 ). Wendi grabbed a starter which she named Poppy, a nice partner for her named Ricky, and provided weekly updates on how every breeding went, showing how to figure out what a starter is hiding, what to do with the resulting kittens/boxes, etc., and I provided a bit of commentary on each week, as well as a few tips here and there . We even got a chance to establish how dominant/ recessive a pretty new fur at the time (Balinese Blue Lynx) was!

Fast-forward to this month… I got to thinking, “starter season is going to begin in a month or so….why not do another Instructional Breeding Project to show all of the new people how to work with the Hallowe’en starters that are just around the corner?” So I discussed my idea with Wendi, and she thought it was a good one. So, without further ado, I’d like to welcome everyone to the the “Instructional Breeding Project II”, or IBP2 as I like to call it for short .
How will this work? Well, it will work in a very similar way to the way the last Instructional Breeding Project did. We’ll be using the same location (http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/At.../189/127 … cats to be set up shortly), as well as this thread for updates and discussion (please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc. ). A new starter has been picked out, a partner for that that starter is ready to go (more about these 2 kitties in a later post ), and so, each week there will new box (or boxes, as the project takes shape) to consider, and analysis of the week’s results, as well as some general education and tips about working with starters. The only real difference with this project (other than different cats being used), is that I will be the one managing the breedings and giving my analysis of things, as opposed to Wendi.

So, everyone, sit back, pull out the popcorn (or kibble, or whatever), and enjoy the ride! Please feel free to post your questions comments here!

I’ll be posting information about starter Arti and her first partner Sydney soon!

Great idea, Charles and I know one person will be interested on this so I will forward it to her

sounds great.

Yay great educational tool which I look forward to seeing, however can I request pictures of the pedigrees.

I still need pictures to help me understand - too much text gives me brain freeze!

Great idea to have a sequel, a "Scary Starter Project" for Halloween and beyond Thank you Charles and Wendi for all you do for the KittyCats community!

Oh this sounds fantastic , can we have pictures also, it makes it so much easier to understand. This is just what I need. thanks bunches

I went back and read the first thread -- Instructional Breediing Project, 2013. It was and is a great idea, and it will be interesting to see how techniques change or stay the same in this new project. Thank you for doing this, Wendi, Charles, and Sanura.
It was interesting the way you used the Russian Black as your starter mate, rather than using a highly traited foxie salt and pepper, as some folks usually do. Also the way you decided which boxes should be unpacked for further testing -- which ones to use for sibling breeding, and/ or which ones to put back with the starter parent -- it was good to see the processes that went into making those choices.
Hope lots of people will be following this event as it unfolds I will

Let me just provide a link here to Saga's KittyCats Collection (Google Docs): https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0_Wqb...iMDhm/edit

It is a fantastic resource for all breeders. New breeders are encouraged to read her Facts, Basics and the Trait Talk Transcript to learn more about the basics!

Before we start working with a starter, it’s important to have a clear idea of what our goals are in doing this. When I work with a starter I approach it with 2 goals in mind. The number one goal is to learn as quickly as I can what traits the starter is hiding. The other goal is to get useful kitties for working the best of those traits (assuming the starter hides something desirable) into my other breeding lines.

I feel that now is a good time to talk about the stars of the show… THE KITTEHS!!!

First of all we have our starter for this project, Arti. Being a starter, Arti shows all Genesis traits:



Also, since Arti is a KittyCatS! Starter, we know that she is guaranteed to hide at least 6 traits (fur, eye colour, tail, ears, whisker colour and whisker shape), since all KittyCatS! Starters do. She may or may not hide a shade, Mysterious eye shape and Small pupil.

So now we need to find a male kitty to pair with Arti. For this purpose, I dug into my cattery and pulled out Sydney:



When I choose a cat to put with a starter, there are a few factors I consider. First of all, I make sure the cat I use shows at least all 6 of traits a starter is guaranteed to hide. Ideally. As is the case with Sydney, I use a 9-traiter. A traity cat will allow you to know when a starter passes traits, and the traits the starter’s partner passes will be at least hiding in any kittens produced, so the more (and better) traits your starter’s partner has, the more (and better) traits are that the kittens will be at least hiding.

Secondly, it’s usually better to use a cat with fairly recessive traits (though probably not the most recessive that you own, for reasons that I will explain next time ) at least in the early breedings, so that you can learn as much as possible as quickly as possible about what your starter is hiding. Sydney’s traits are a bit more dominant on average than I would normally use (I wanted to use the sort of cat that most people would be able to get access to fairly easily), but has above minimum-level traits in the 6 guaranteed hiddens, so he should work pretty well.

Thirdly, if you can use a cat with retired traits, that is pretty handy, since if you breed with the starter and get a kitten showing the retired trait back, you know that the kitten’s hidden trait is the starter’s hidden trait, and that it is more recessive than the showing retired trait, since a starter can't hide a retired trait. For example, Sydney here has 2 retired traits (his Aby Fawn fur and Mercury eyes are both retired traits). So if I breed Sydney with Arti and get a kitten back showing the Aby Fawn fur back, I will know that Arti’s hidden fur is recessive to Aby Fawn, since she can’t hide the retired Aby Fawn fur.

I know the line Sydney is from pretty well, and there is a good chance that Sydney’s traits are all pure. About the only ones that may not be pure are his fur (there is a chance of Siamese Flame hiding) and shade (his mom is known to hide Glitter). Here is the first exercise of this journey we are on (warning: it is fairly challenging, so don’t get too discouraged if you don’t get it right away ):

Exercise: How can I be certain that Sydney’s eye is pure Mercury, and what are the hidden eyes of the parents and grandparents (see, I told you it was challenging hehe)?

Hints: Remember that every cat has exactly one shown eye colour trait and one hidden eye colour trait, that the hidden trait is either the same as, or recessive to, the shown trait, and that when 2 cats breed, each parent will pass either its shown eye colour or its hidden eye colour to their offspring.

Remember also that Azure is dominant to Gerbera Purple, which in turn is dominant to Mercury (see Saga’s charts for a reminder ).

Finally, notice that Sydney’s mom is also the mom of Sydney’s dad, and that Sydney’s mom’s dad is also Sydney’s dad’s dad (i.e. Sydney has only one grandfather).

Let’s sum up Sydney’s strengths and weaknesses as a starter partner. He is a 9-traiter, which is a definite plus. His eyes and at least his shown fur are both retired, which is also a nice advantage. His traits are moderately recessive, which should result in most of Arti’s less interesting hiddens showing early, and her more interesting hiddens (hopefully she has some lol) hiding, which can be an asset in the long term for breeding out pure traits (we’ll cover this another time ), but will have the disadvantage of not showing us as much as a partner with more recessive traits might. Finally, Sydney’s traits are mostly (maybe even all) pure, which has the advantage of predictability (which pretty much know what he will pass), but has the disadvantage of not giving us as much variety in the possible results (in the first Instructional Breeding Project, starter partner Ricky’s shown/hidden fur combo of fairly dominant Black Russian hiding much more recessive Ocicat Ebony Silver was quite an asset in learning about starter Poppy’s hidden Balinese Blue Lynx fur). All in all, Sydney is a pretty good partner for Arti (and he’s a cute kitteh too ).

Sydney and Arti should be dropping their first box later this week, so stay tuned, and feel free to post your questions/comments here!

Exercise Answer: Sydney’s dad Curiously Mercurial shows Mercury eyes, and thus hides Mercury or better.

Thus, Curiously Mercurial got Mercury from one of his parents (Hicurfawn and Curiously Purple), and Mercury or better from the other parent. Since Hicurfawn’s shown eye is dominant to Mercury, and since Curiously Purple’s shown Gerbera Purple eye is also dominant to Mercury, Curiously Mercurial must have received each parent’s hidden eye colour, one of which is Mercury, and the other of which is Mercury or better.

But Curiously Purple (Sydney’s mom) is the daughter of Hicurfawn. Since her Gerbera Purple shown eye is recessive to Hicurfawn’s shown Azure eye, she must have received his hidden eye, which is Mercury or better. Since Curiously Purple’s shown Gerbera Purple is dominant to Mercury, she can’t have received it from her dad Hicurfawn (who shows Azure hides Mercury or better); she must have received Gerbera Purple from her mom Heptacura, so Heptacura’s hidden eye is Gerbera Purple (since her shown is Azure).

This means that Curiously Purple got her hidden eye colour from her dad Hicurfawn, and that her hidden eye colour is the same as his.

Their son Curiously Mercurial (Sydney’s dad) is showing Mercury, and since Mercury is recessive to both Gerbera Purple and Azure, he received the hidden eye colour from both his mom, Curiously Purple, and his dad, Hicurfawn. But we already know that Curiously Purple and Hicurfawn have the same hidden eye colour. Therefore, that hidden eye colour must be their son’s Mercury and Curiously Mercurial’s eyes must be pure Mercury (i.e his shown and hidden eye colours are both Mercury).

Since Sydney’s shown Mercury is recessive to mom’s shown Gerbera Purple, he must have received mom’s hidden Mercury. Since his dad’s eyes are pure Mercury, he could only have received Mercury from his dad. Therefore, Sydney’s eyes are pure Mercury).

To sum up: Heptacura hides Gerbera Purple, and all the rest of Sydney’s parents and grandparents hide Mercury, as does Sydney.

This is such a great help and very informational. Thanks for putting in all the work required to share this project. I look forward to reading about the results!

Awesome Charles! I'll be sure to check back often to see how it goes