KittyCatS! Community Forum

(05-29-2014 05:40 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]

Karloff Wrote:I breed the two siblings together. Because the hidden fur and eyes are recessive to the shown (dominant) fur and eyes, the kittens will share the parent's shown traits, but will still have the same hidden traits as the parents as well?

Well, yes, the shown traits will be the same as the dominant trait shown by the parent, but as to the hidden traits, that can change.

Well it's early morning for me so i may well be missing something and if i am i apologize, Ivy has probably understood the question better than i have, but i'm having trouble with this as a stand-alone statement as the parents' hidden traits could produce an offspring with the parents' hidden traits shown and hidden, no ?



Now i don't have an identical example of Karloff's description but even if Juna and Circehyll had been siblings Guadaloupe's resulting coat could have been the same. (Also, even if Bali Cream had been the only fur showing on this pedigree page the Snow Cream could still have been passed down)

** Note also that at this point i can't know what the hidden eye is as either side could have produced the Ody Sublime and the hidden eye could even be off the page, but of course it could be just Ody Sublime again. I've even had Ody Bellini pop out in cousins and i had absolutely no idea that it had been lurking.
His hidden shade will be either Twinkle or his Mom's hidden Flash but the odds are for Twinkle.

gonna drop this here real quick before i head off to work, here's the occi/pandie pair i was talking about:



gretle:lox breeding pattern by peglegpete316, on Flickr


gretle:lox breeding pattern 2 by peglegpete316, on Flickr


there were a lot more kids, but you get the idea. I have to dash now, but i wanted to get this down before i hit the road.

Anna Wrote:but i'm having trouble with this as a stand-alone statement as the parents' hidden traits could produce an offspring with the parents' hidden traits shown and hidden, no ?

Sure. Absolutely. That was the option 4. that I gave in the four possible outcomes for a box. And thank you for the beautiful illustration of it.

Ivy Wrote:1. Dad throws OciES, Mom throws PandiPlat -> OS will be PandiPlat/ocies.
2. Dad throws hiddenY, Mom throws PandiPlat -> OS will be PandiPlat/hiddenY.
3. Dad throws OciES, Mom throws hidden X -> OS will be OciES/hidden X.
4. Dad throws hidden Y, Mom throws hidden X -> OS will show whichever of the two is more dominant and hide whichever is more recessive.

But I suspected, and Karloff has provided further evidence, that one of the cats (the Dad as it turns out) has OciES in more than one slot. (I'm not saying without hunkering over the pedigrees more that it's absolute proof that there isn't a different hidden lurking, but I think it's likely that Lox is OciES pure.)

I haven't had a chance to look over the pedigrees much, but just at a glance, Goldie's hidden fur is Pandi Brown and white (or better). I haven't looked into the eyes at all. Just off the cuff, of the offspring, for a PandiPlat with Platinum eyes, Karloff you are going to want to go with Platinum Dream Kitty with the 8T Ebony Silver boy, which will preserve the platinum eyes (though a hidden could pop out in some kittens) and the tiger curl tail (though a hidden could pop out in some kittens) and cover the OciES of the dad with the PandiPlat (though some offspring will show the OciES).

Oh good Ivy, thats why i specified "as a stand alone statement" as i rather doubted that you'd make such a mistake.

Anyhow glad to see that you've handled the pedi as my neuron is now badly in need of repair so i'll leave it to you now …. runs and hides ------------------>

(05-30-2014 07:47 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]

Anna Wrote:but i'm having trouble with this as a stand-alone statement as the parents' hidden traits could produce an offspring with the parents' hidden traits shown and hidden, no ?

Sure. Absolutely. That was the option 4. that I gave in the four possible outcomes for a box. And thank you for the beautiful illustration of it.

Ivy Wrote:1. Dad throws OciES, Mom throws PandiPlat -> OS will be PandiPlat/ocies.
2. Dad throws hiddenY, Mom throws PandiPlat -> OS will be PandiPlat/hiddenY.
3. Dad throws OciES, Mom throws hidden X -> OS will be OciES/hidden X.
4. Dad throws hidden Y, Mom throws hidden X -> OS will show whichever of the two is more dominant and hide whichever is more recessive.

But I suspected, and Karloff has provided further evidence, that one of the cats (the Dad as it turns out) has OciES in more than one slot. (I'm not saying without hunkering over the pedigrees more that it's absolute proof that there isn't a different hidden lurking, but I think it's likely that Lox is OciES pure.)

I haven't had a chance to look over the pedigrees much, but just at a glance, Goldie's hidden fur is Pandi Brown and white (or better). I haven't looked into the eyes at all. Just off the cuff, of the offspring, for a PandiPlat with Platinum eyes, Karloff you are going to want to go with Platinum Dream Kitty with the 8T Ebony Silver boy, which will preserve the platinum eyes (though a hidden could pop out in some kittens) and the tiger curl tail (though a hidden could pop out in some kittens) and cover the OciES of the dad with the PandiPlat (though some offspring will show the OciES).

Ah. ok. think i get it now, at least in this case: Lox has OcciES as both his hidden and shown fur,which is dominant to Pandi Brown and white, so in examples 3 and four, OcciES will show. but any time Pandi Plat is thrown, the OS should show Pandie Plat?

so, in this scenario it is just sort of bad luck that almost all of the offspring were catching example 2 and 3?

Karloff Wrote:Ah. ok. think i get it now, at least in this case: Lox has OcciES as both his hidden and shown fur,which is dominant to Pandi Brown and white, so in examples 3 and four, OcciES will show. but any time Pandi Plat is thrown, the OS should show Pandie Plat?

Yes.

Quote:so, in this scenario it is just sort of bad luck that almost all of the offspring were catching example 2 and 3?

3 and 4. You may have gotten several boxes of 4 that showed a hidden, but the hidden being the same as the shown, it didn't look any different on the surface. Yes, you just got a run of ocicats.

*laughs* sorry, i meant 3 and 4.

thank you :-)

I may have other questions coming up...but for now, i think this answers them.