KittyCatS! Community Forum

Hi

I just wanted to have a discusion about new traits being released too often ...

Now we have a new recessive the Aby - Dark Chocolate, thanks to that guy for figuring it was the new most recessive thanks to breeding it with a chocolate tortie, strange thing to do but congratulations on your very sucessful breedings that always amaze me how you do it.

What do the Easter cats hold for us ? Possible more new recessive traits so soon ?

Personally i feel like too many traits are being released too soon, its not giving breeders a chance to catch up in the game with anything unless you have yourself a ton of money like some people who can buy 100+ cats, no names mentioned.

It seems to me this is all about making a whole lot of money off customers while trying to force the smaller breeders to get more and more starter kittens to keep up with the ever increasing influx of recessive traits.

Personally i feel like quitting at the moment and by speaking to alot of other people im thinking they are feeling the same way too at the moment.

Please KittyCats I plead you give us a fair chance to catch up a little in the game before releasing so many recessive traits so soon to each other. I know its kind of fun for people and really loved this when i started out with kittycats but now find its getting boring with the ever incresing effort to keep up without seeming to make much if any profit back from doing this.

Whats your thoughts on this ?

P.S A bit off topic but whats the fun in finding anything new when a certain someone will find 10 or 15 of the same thing a day or 2 later after discovery and then take mass domination of the market ? It would be great for some randomisation in kittycats so this does not happen time and time again to certain people.

I think it's important to remember that any business, SL or RL, has to continue to update and introduce new merchandise in order to attract new customers and keep the old ones interested. Most of us are very excited whenever a new trait is discovered and we enjoy the challenge of working that trait into our existing cats for a whole new look. The challenge keeps people involved in the breeding experience and I think without it many people would be bored. Once everyone has 9T Abyssinian Chocolates, how exciting will it be to go shopping for 9T Aby Chocolates? Not much...

I do relate to the frustration you feel about not being able to keep up at times. Like a lot of people, I don't want to put a lot of money into Second Life because I'd rather spend it elsewhere, so my L$ are limited. Each new "season" when the collectibles come out, I buy between 8-12 new cats. This means I have far fewer chances for a "lucky" cat than do those with massive catteries who buy hundreds of the new ones. On the bright side, I also have far less invested in food/milk and not near as much to lose if the cats do not turn out to have the new hidden trait. In any case, random luck is sometimes on your side. I've had new traits in several of my cats, even though I only got a few, whereas some people I know bought 75-100 and got nothing. Luck of the draw. They get more chances but you still have a chance.

I would suggest that maybe instead of competing in the race to develop new traits, you concentrate on a niche market or a special project. For example, some people breed Vampire or Halloween cats, Black Russians with Vampire ears and dazzling eyes. Others revive retired traits. You can work on creating your own unique style and having something a little different from the rest.

We've been moaning about this since 2011 in various threads but it doesn't seem to have done much good. Too many new traits too fast kill trait value i'm sure of that.
Although Ody Bellini eyes did have a very long most recessive run of around 18 months.
The influx usually calms down from now until next Halloween though and give us a chance to breathe.
Really the best way to go about breeding is only breed the new recessives that you really like; since the Oci ES the only fur i've liked really is the Snow Cream so as that line is well on the way i will stick it out to the end i think.
I still like Fussy whiskers the best so i'm happy when i can get them in. The only relatively recent trait i really like is Ody Round Fold ears and i won't be going for the Soft curl.
Running after all the newest TRs is a fools game, if you don't like the appearance of what you're breeding then you'll soon get fed up with it and maybe not carry it through.
I agree with MiuKitten, be unique, after all too many people are always in the newest TR rat race so these lose their value pretty fast and so many investors only lose money. I've seen some pay 50K+ for a new latest and greatest only to see it ousted a month later.

As for breeding the Aby Dark Choc with the Choc tortie, this isn't at all strange but the obvious and necessary thing to do in order to establish the pecking order.

I agree with the prior posters, it's always busy between halloween and easter with new traits. But from now on there won't be any new traits for a while. So you can spend this time to either catch up and/or breed what you think is the most gorgeous. Because that is the secret trick the longlived breeders have found (most of them at least). Find out what really makes you love the cats and work on strong lines with that, add in a trait at a time and slowly build up to, what you believe to be, the perfect cat We have lots of new traits to choose from now, so the possibilities are almost endless!

But yes, the winter-half of the year will always be filled with lots of new traits and summer you'll only see a few, if any at all, depending on if all the traits get discovered already or not.

I agree with Anna they have pushed it too far with the Soft Curl Ears

(04-21-2014 03:13 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Anna they have pushed it too far with the Soft Curl Ears.

I just saw a picture of the soft curled ears and I think they are lovely! Though I can't figure out what kind of cat they would look the best on, and they don't really fit into the current project I'm working on, but it is an ear I might look into in the future! :3

(04-20-2014 02:03 AM)anna acanthus Wrote: [ -> ]As for breeding the Aby Dark Choc with the Choc tortie, this isn't at all strange but the obvious and necessary thing to do in order to establish the pecking order.

Congratulations, Anna. Perfect perception of the work done.
Everyone does it, and submit evidence to Liriel.

This is an interesting thread...and although my reply may not make sense to some or annoy others, I just have to comment. I think that alot of people are feeling the heat, so to speak, of chasing new traits until the Latest n Greatest is practically aged out or whose value has plummeted from a questionable 5K to 1K virtually overnight. I dont feel the need to be the first on the block to have the newest traits or pay the sometimes unrealistic prices I see even for a "Hiding" trait only to see it cost a fraction in a week...besides, ultimately ALL traits will be out there and even those selling them first will have a hard time realizing any profit after you consider the amounts spent buying the kitties, feeding them etc. So, I prefer to just buy what I like to breed when the "new release fever" breaks and dust from the presumed claims of "rare" are assigned to kitties that have only been out a day or two has settled.

Most of us are seeing the repercussions of a "boom to bust" cycle created by too many releases in a short time. All the "fire sales" and 200L 9T Kitties whose sale price will not even cover what it cost to feed them, let alone help support the ones we keep for breeding may seem to be helping us in the very short term, but ultimately will come back to haunt us. Once sellers have set the precedent of selling excellent kitties well below their value, good luck rebounding back to reasonable prices that help defray the cost of breeding kitties...This is how it goes on RL and SL, as i am sure other RL breeders like myself know. Lets just ask ourselves how much we spent on Vday Kitty Collections (2), then Mardi Gras/St Patty breedings in hopes of getting the special kitties, how much we spent Buying what we didnt get from the vendors or the breeding event...Add to that this latest releasepg 2 more sets. Yes, there are some who got lucky and were graced with a Mega or other special kitty - but those are as rare as Lotto winners.

My point is that I think this can easily get out of hand and we end up having to practically Give away wonderful kitties for peanuts because sometimes we get caught up in what i call "new release fever" and dont do the math......Ok...I will shut up now...sorry...

I wholly agree with Pretty about the likes and dislikes , she makes a very good point.
You will often find in my cattery I purposely breed for very old dominant things and that's only because I favor them and I know that my customers favor them too, one side of my cattery is not about new things at all but match the prettiest things together, and albiet the new things are pretty too, but sometimes when comes to being an artist time kinda loses its meaning, we look up one moment and 2 new things are out look up the next and they aren't new anymore, sometimes we can't really judge how times passes for an artist life is usually temporal, they tend to be patient adaptable ppl, who probably care more about pretty cats than having the latest fur, and are patient enuf to wait out the price wars.

I also however do like to cater to all kinds of breeders as customers, so i also breed cats for breeding, this automatically means that I will always try to stock the most recessive furs available because these furs are the ones ppl will try to use the most to pull new furs from starters

Oooh and she also makes VERY good point in the middle part of her post about prices in general and how the fact that ppl who can't afford to feed their cats are forced to sell things waaay too cheaply this makes is virtually impossible like she said for anyone to sell those cats ever again for higher value, and yes that is the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately, It is natural when you love something sometimes you love it just a little "too" much, lol, I'm sure we all know what thats like, so a any amount of tolerance and understanding when you do see ppl selling things for peanuts is appreciated I'm sure on their part, its the way it goes, it brings certain flavor to our economy actually, for ppl who first start out it's great and it helps them I know there's a little give and take in every topic, and i do have a habit of trying to always see things from both sides.

Although I would like to also add my 2 cents here about the pricing topic in particular...

I don't price "some" of my cats all wild and crazy like the prices I saw when I first started buying cats, and this may upset those who do they say things like this destroys the "integrity of kittycats " when I see it just the other way around, charging outlandish prices for would be dominant traits that know even knows is dominant yet because its the tendency of competitive breeders to start out testing the new furs with the very most recessive traits, yes this is natural to want to be the best in your field, yes indeed we all want that we all want to succeed so we will naturally all tend to be a bit competitive regardless of where are good intentions lie, this behavior should just be perceived as normal, however what erks me tho is how one can get away with charging so much for a questionable new trait and say do not do so would hurt the integrity of the market, but doesn't getting burned by paying waaaaay too much for a cat actually HURT the integrity of kittycats community far more?

Since in essence mostly the reason why something depreciates in value IS because of it's dominance being discovered. OR perhaps we have an interesting week of breeding weather and we look around and everyone suddenly sees snowshoe creams everywhere and they are all marking their prices down, kinda weird tho cause it supposed to be recessive, and hasn't the same happened to balinese creams did it not? didn't they just happen to suddenly overnight become prolific even though they are supposed to be recessive and so sometimes there will be things outta our control that determine marketability and prices. The Current present Rarity of any trait regardless of how new it is is also a BIG factor in determining the current value of a cat, That should very well be taken into consideration as well. I believe this all to be most certain and thats's just another way the cookie continues to crumble I guess...

Perhaps what we really need to do is all take a step back and just try to control our uhm addictions a little to avoid the peanut sales and erm perhaps try to have "patience" and wait it out before selling off our brand spanking new traits at outlandish prices before REAL dominance has even been discovered, perhaps mix it up a bit try a few aby ruddys in there with your foxies and snowshoe creams and choc torties, it's fun i promise, its just as much a lotto that way too, and when you loose you're actually helping the community with valuable info and so no one actually loses, ithink this is the best most mature standpoint to have, but it's your choice if you want to agree with me, just my opinion...

If someone makes a buck today but only by hurting another person versus someone makes less today in order to maintain a long term valued customer base maybe thats the better way to look at things, all I know is in SL just like in RL a little customer service goes a very very long way.

And one more thing about KittyCats! in particular, it is their job to keep releasing things mysteriously the way they do, and in the amount they do, and to always keep us guessing, trust me when I say as customers we wouldn't actually want it any other way, as marketeers I would assume they know best and have and know exactly what it takes to be # 1 in their field, so hats off to them for a job well done, I don't disagree with the way they release their traits at all I think its good to have a variety in the dominant/recessive furs otherwise it would just be too easy and no one would care to breed anymore, I think we should all for the most part trust that they know exactly what they are doing and get ready for all the wonderful things I'm sure they have planned for us in the near future and above all be grateful for how much hard work actually goes into something of this magnitude, I'm not joking when I say they make it look easy, but no matter what I'm sure you will have ppl who think it is too hard, but it should be hard...that justifies the value of the more recessive furs, I just hope everyone will attempt to maintain their good common sense to not screw over your fellow player with things no one even knows if it is recessive yet, but perhaps all the good we do know about in the community will continue to give all of us the motivation needed to continue on in a respectable manner